Ask the Expert

Ask the Expert #8 with Jason Mannino

Alton: Hello Jason welcome to tonight’s chat.

Rex: Hi

Jason Mannino: Hello, I’m not late am I?

Renee: Hey how’s it going?

Jason Mannino: Great, thanks for asking.

Alton: Nope just getting to know everyone.

Jason Mannino: Welcome!

Nathan: Hi

Jason Mannino: ok

Alton: So Jason we are going to get started, we have a lively room tonight.

Jason Mannino: Great!

Jason Mannino: Lively is good.

Renee: I think we can help with that…

Rex: Yeah

Alton: So everyone I would like to welcome Jason Mannino.

Jason Mannino: Thank you! Thanks for having me. Welcome to all of you.

Alton: Jason is a certified spiritual psychologist, breathworker, and massage therapist.

Renee: Wow he has a lot to offer.

Rex: That’s cool

Jason Mannino: Yes, I am oh, Life Coach and Career Coach also. Thanks.

Alton: So Jason, tonight we are going to be discussing the topic More than Hot, Qualities we look for in ourselves and others.

Jason Mannino: Right it’s interesting stuff, I think.

Alton: What do you think guys are looking for outside of themselves?

Nathan: Nice smile and package.

Renee: Nice

Jason Mannino: I think in our society we are not taught to believe that what we are looking for outside of ourselves actually exists right within us.

Jason Mannino: So when we are not taught to know that these things exist within us we end up looking  for things like love, worthiness, and nurturing.

Jason Mannino: Happiness, all of these things we often look for them externally.

Alton: what are some ways we look for this outside of ourselves?

Renee: I think I do it every time I hit the gym.

Rex: It happens and is natural.

Jason Mannino: I think men and people in general spend a lot of time thinking that they need to find the perfect man for a relationship because that is what will provide all of these elements.

Nathan: See it all the time this is natural I think.

Jason Mannino: Renee you are right on with that.

Jason Mannino: Many of us go to the gym to fulfill a societal definition of what it means to look good so that we are than worthy enough to find the love or validation we need to look for outside of ourselves.

Alton: So what I’m hearing is that the perfect man is within us.

Jason Mannino: Or we think we need to look for outside of ourselves.

Renee: Okay

Jason Mannino: Alton! Thank YOU! ABSOLUTELY!

Jason Mannino: you just hit it right on the head.  This concept of finding your soul mate or ideal mate or whatever you want to a call that starts with you.

Renee: I don’t think that is true. I would see this as being only into yourself.

Jason Mannino: I hear that Renee, that’s not quite what I am saying.

Rex: We all need someone in our lives, right

Jason Mannino: Yup

Jason Mannino: hold on guys..

Renee: What do you mean I’m confused.

Jason Mannino: Well, just to be clear… I am not saying we don’t need to have relationships AT ALL.

Jason Mannino: What I am saying… We are already whole within ourselves.

Renee: that’s airy fairy talk, what does that mean… I know that when I’m out there in the world, I need to be with other people, it’s natural.

Jason Mannino: It means that the essence of who you are is loving.

Rex: Hmmm he’s got a point.

Jason Mannino: Renee, of course it’s natural hold on, I’m not saying erase people from your life.  I said it “starts” with you.  I didn’t say it “finishes” with you, Is that clearer?

Nathan: I think there is some truth to this and it’s about going out and finding what you are about.

Jason Mannino: Yes, Nathan.

Alton: Wow so finding what makes you tick. That’s great Nathan.

Jason Mannino: It’s about finding out who you are initially, the idea that love is an inner experience that we don’t have to have others to give us our self-esteem, here is where relationship start to come in.

Alton: So Jason what ways could one do to find themselves in the way you are describing?

Jason Mannino: What I am describing I would say entails all levels, physical, mental and spiritual.

Renee: I have plenty of friends and relate with a lot of people, it’s all fun.

Jason Mannino: For instance, one can actually learn a lot about themselves through physical training at the gym.

Rex: I like traveling.

Jason Mannino: Oh yeah, traveling for sure.

Rex: I meet a lot of guys on trips.

Jason Mannino: Can be very profound

Alton: Great

Jason Mannino: And you also learn a lot about yourself when you travel solo.

Jason Mannino: You learn about what some of your needs are. What makes you comfortable, etc.

Jason Mannino: When you travel you also get to experience real beauty, which can teach one a lot about themselves, other ways are to examine belief systems…. This would be working on the mental level.

Alton: You mentioned 3 aspects physical, mental and spiritual.  Sometimes in our busy lives focusing on this can be difficult.  What are some ways you approach this.

Renee: this is getting pretty heavy, where’s all the fun in this.

Jason Mannino: Renee what do you mean by heavy.

Renee: Your making me think, I mean why can’t we just meet have fun and grow old.

Jason Mannino: Well, you can

Rex: Yah

Jason Mannino: That would be your choice.

Alton: I think what we are exploring here are the choices one has guys.

Jason Mannino: We are all free to make choices. However, we also need to be willing to accept what comes from those choices

Nathan: Sometimes I have found it to be far and few when it comes to our community.

Jason Mannino: Nathan, can you elaborate?

Renee: I choose cute guys…J

Jason Mannino: I still hear what you’re saying, I’ve had some very lonely days myself.

Nathan: Rex brings up a good point.

Jason Mannino: These are excellent points, It does get lonely out there in engaging in some of the things that I have described we develop more fulfilling relationships with ourselves.

Rex: Thanks, but truly it gets lonely out there, I mean I’ve done the clubbing scene and that sort of thing and now it’s pretty boring but I’m not finding guys that like to do what I do.

Renee: I could never get bored of the guys…what gives?

Jason Mannino: hmmmm, just got disconnected for a sex, I’ve done the clubbing scene too, there are other options for meeting guys, but as I was saying earlier when we start with ourselves we cultivate more fulfilling relationships with ourselves.

Rex: I know they are out there and believe me I’ve tried but still nothing and I feel pretty good about myself.

Jason Mannino: And then what we get to do is have our lives enhanced by meeting people.

Alton: Hey Rex there is a lot for you out there, besides the chat I’ll fill you in on our activities.

Jason Mannino: Rex there’s tons, I could shar a lot of options with you.

Renee: What do you like to do Rex?

Jason Mannino: I’d love to know more about you along the lines of what Renee just asked and explore the possibilities.

Alton I think that is a start. Hey Jason ,  what are some activities you have done to more towards your own self-discovery.

Jason Mannino: Sorry, some activities, well, I have a very full spiritual life.

Alton: Hey everything okay there Jason? J

Nathan: spirituality is good.

Jason Mannino: I’ve done a lot of self-growth work, which led me to the self-discovery I have now, the main spiritual psychology is all about this, but I also conduct seminars/workshops for gay men that is in alignment with all of this, I’ve spent a lot of time at the gym which taught me a lot about myself.

Rex: Alright I have done the self-help stuff believe me, try eating right, being healthy, mediation, bike-riding, going to concerts I’ve done it but I still don’t find myself in total bliss, it just gets to be routine.

Jason Mannino: at one pt. I lost my motivation at the gym and realized that this is because my priorities shifted.

Renee: bummer.

Jason Mannino: routines can get dull and I know that.

Alton: Thanks for being honest Rex.

Ask The Expert #7 with Reid Mihalko

Alton: So everyone I would like to welcome Reid Mihalko who is a sex and relationship educator, speaker, workshop designer, facilitator and writer.

Alton: Hey Reid so how was the first weekend of workshops.

Reid Mihalko: Thanks, Alton. Welcome guys! Thanks for having me…

Alton: For the guys online there was a panel on group sex parties and their history last Thursday.

Jason: I’m interested in the flirting workshop.

Reid Mihalko: The men that came to all of the workshops were awesome.

Alton: Nice…

Reid Mihalko: The Speed-Flirting was of particular importance to me.

Alton: Okay let’s start there.

Reid Mihalko: Since it was the first time anywhere that the workshop happened.

Jason: Cool

Reid Mihalko: The launch went really well. It’s a workshop devoted to an evening of exploring the fun and play in meeting people.

Alton: As an attendee of the flirting workshop I think it was good information that was challenging as well.

Reid Mihalko: Challenging yes, and I hope it was fun. Was it?

Alton Do you feel  that connection with other men is a challenge in our community?

Reid Mihalko: Well, I feel that deep connection is.

Jason: So what is your best pick up line Reid?

Reid Mihalko: So much of our meeting other men, especially in the gay scene is about hitting on one another or scoping one another out.

Robert: Got to hear this one.

Reid Mihalko: We don’t “play” anymore.

Reid Mihalko: My best pickup line, huh?

Alton: Sort of like your metaphor about grade school children?

Reid Mihalko: I like asking people directly if they’d be interested in a no-holds barred flirt-test.

Jason: What’s that look like?

Reid Mihalko: I really enjoy engaging people in flirting full-out.

Reid Mihalko: Playing with meeting one another and just really diving into the fun of connecting and trying to.

Jason: Okay so do you just go up to a guy and make out?

Reid Mihalko: Get one another to blush, to smile, to laugh.

Jason: Okay this I have to see I was mentioning before that this isn’t the norm.

Reid Mihalko: The metaphor of being in grade school is that you basically just ask them if they want to play.

Alton: From what I learned in class it’s about challenging these norms.

Reid Mihalko: As LA gay men, we of course take that to mean “let’s go get it on” which is fine, but limits the fun, the tease, and the play.

Robert: Not everyone wants to play…

Reid Mihalko: Going straight to bed is fun, but it’s basically only using one color in a whole box of crayons that you’ve got, if you can follow the metaphor.

Reid Mihalko: Yeah, it’s not the norm, and yes, not everyone wants to play, but.

Reid Mihalko: Giving people permission to use more than just one crayon opens up whole new ways of connecting and meeting people.  When it’s just about “hey, let’s hook up: then you only get to know a limited side of that someone.

Reid Mihalko: I want to challenge the norms and see what’s there that we’re missing.

Alton: So what you are talking about is those different ways of connecting.

Reid Mihalko: Even the hot guys have a whole side to them that you don’t get to see/meet when you’re just trying to take them home.

Jason: I’m not always wanting to hookup but I don’t usually get to figure that out until later.

Reid Mihalko: Have fun flirting for a while and you can take them home later, or, in the case of being in a relationship for a while.

Robert: Hmmm meeting up with people.

Reid Mihalko: Bringing the flirtation BACK into your relationship is SO great!

Reid Mihalko: I think, as queer men, we get used to making it all about the hook up.

Alton: So you mention that this sense of play isn’t there anymore what do you think has changed this?

Reid Mihalko: We have the cultural permission as gay men that it’s okay to hook up quickly and we place so much pressure on that, on making the hooking up.

Reid Mihalko: The “goal” or “game” that we can only be winners or losers.

Alton: From what you are saying there isn’t just one goal, there are many to play with.

Reid Mihalko: The pressure to perform kills the play. When you’re just flirting and by flirting, I mean a much larger definition than just, “hey, what’s your sign?”.

Reid Mihalko: Then there is no winner or loser. It’s just fun. Of course.

Reid Mihalko: The risk in it is that maybe no one wants to play with us. And that can be scary.

Jason: Sounds like a different way of looking at things.

Reid Mihalko: I like introducing different perspectives. I think they can be VERY liberating. Maybe it isn’t “your thing” but it might help open up other areas of your life.

Reid Mihalko: “Flirting” becomes a metaphor for any area in your life.

Robert: That’s a different way of looking at it.

Reid Mihalko: That you want to connect and play with people in. And so many of us are, in a way, stuck in 7^th grade.

Alton: I found it to be pretty refreshing and one of the comments that really helped me out with that.

Reid Mihalko: 7^th grade was HELL on me!

Alton: By thanking the other guy for taking care of themselves, softened the blow in a way it they were to say no.  

Reid Mihalko: I was the fat, goofy kid who played connect four and read comic books.

Jason: The dreaded no.

Reid Mihalko: Yeah, thanking people and empowering them is a HUGE THING!

Robert: I’d say that we have all been there.

Reid Mihalko: I talk about that in almost all of my workshops.

Reid Mihalko: Rejection is a fear that almost all people have.

Alton: Okay great, so how was all of this great stuff brought into Gay Men’s Tantra?

Alton: Just a note for our participants Gay Men’s tantra was a sacred sexuality class that explored different lovemaking techniques and communication skills helpful for deepening intimacy and connection.

Reid Mihalko: With the Men’s tantra class…

Jason: Now we are talking.

Alton: Yes the tantra class.

Reid Mihalko: The goal was to lay the foundation for the men in the class to understand what tantra is and how to “decode” it if you ever take a tantra class that’s hetero-normative. You know male-female based.

Robert: Is this similar to yoga?

Reid Mihalko: It’s like yoga in that it’s from India.

Alton: So balancing male and female energy.

Reid Mihalko: And it is a “practice.”

Alton: So how was this done from a gay perspective?

Reid Mihalko: Tantra is the practice of deepening one’s awareness and facility with sexual energy and how to be a better lover of life, not just another.

Reid Mihalko: So you can get pretty far out there and “woo-woo” with it, but teach it from a VERY pragmatic point of view.

Alton: Could you elaborate on that?

Reid Mihalko: Sure.

Jason:  Isn’t this different sex positions and stuff.

Reid Mihalko:  For instance, as gay men( and straight men do it too), so many of us are focused on the orgasm.

Robert: What wrong with that?

Reid Mihalko: Nothing’s wrong with that, Robert in advanced tantra, we learn positions and breathing techniques to extend sex so that we have more control over.

Alton: So is tantra taking ones attention from orgasm and moving that awareness toward sharing energy with your partner?

Reid Mihalko: Our bodies and with that control we then can shift our awareness to the other person.

Reid Mihalko: Shift more awareness to ourselves too. When sex is just about the orgasm, it’s like your back to coloring with only one crayon in the box.  You miss out on all these other colors.

Alton: My belief has been that we as gay men hold both energies male and female.  Coming from this standpoint how does this play out in a session?

Reid Mihalko: All men hold both energies. Women too. So, in tantra.

Alton: What colors are in this box you speak of? I’ve heard orgasm in one of them.

Robert: I like getting off though that’s where I’m at.

Reid Mihalko: Especially with a partner, you’re going on a journey.

Reid Mihalko: An adventure, and that usually builds intimacy. In tantra, we’re just using sexual energy as the gateway to deeper relationships. Even if you’re just hooking up with a stranger off of Craigslist you can bring all of this deft knowledge into play and really rock their world.

Robert: Or adam4 adam …J

Reid Mihalko: yep!

Alton: So Reid we are coming up on the last few minutes of the chat did you want to say anything about future projects coming up.

Reid Mihalko:: I’ll be teaching a workshop next week called “Putting the Art in Partnership” at the Center. It’s for anyone wanting better tools to take their relationships to the next level from true “partnership.”

Jason: What about us single guys…

Reid Mihalko: There’s info on the Center’s site under Learning Curve, or you can go to my site www.reidmihalko.com

Alton: Okay great, well guys I wanted to thank Reid for joining us on tonight’s chat.  If you would like more info check out the aforementioned website.

Reid Mihalko: If you sign up for my newsletter, I’ll send you announcements on what’s new.  I’m also available for private coaching for anyone interested in relationship coaching of any kind.

Reid Mihalko: Thank you, Alton!

Alton: And if you would like to meet other guys who are working on things like this come out to the Mind Body and Soul classes where we have Yoga, Meditation and discussion groups.

Reid Mihalko: Good night guys! And keep up the great work, Alton~

Alton: Thanks man…

Jason: Thanks

Robert: Good night

Ask the Experts #6 (Gay Heroes)

Alton: So guys what is your definition of a hero or who has been a hero in your life?

Manuel: My Dad

Jason: My mom

Manuel: Because he made sacrifices to raise our family.

Christopher Rice: Someone who acts against their own self interest to help others.

Randy_RocketScientist: Someone who realizes the downside of something but does it anyway because it’s necessary or important….

Manuel: Which meant he cared beyond himself

Alton: Great…

Ron Buckmire: Someone who sees what need to be done and odes it, regardless of how much it will cost them.

Alton: Do you think that gay men in our community need heroes or people to look up to?

Thomas G: To me that has many meanings. One is my parents, and another is someone who does something they are afraid to do, but do it anyways for the benefit of others. Example, Rosa Parks, My High School History teacher, and many others.

Manuel: Someone who can live by this Dalai Lama saying “Benefit others, if not… at least try not to harm them.”

Manuel: YES we need more role models.

Thomas G: I do agree that we do need heroes, and others to look up to.

Christopher Rice: I think a lot of gay men need to get more clear with themselves on how they’re defining the word hero.

Thomas G: I personally benefitted from those who came out before me, and to all the men and women who were out, and showed me they are no different than everyone else.

Ron Buckmire: and “role model.”

Manuel: A hero doesn’t have to do something grand.

Christopher Rice: Or having more sex than I do.

Manuel: It can be a momentary lapse of heroism.

Thomas G: Do you think there is an exact definition of hero?

Thomas G: Besides websters?

Alton: Now on to a serious question. In West Hollywood it is sometimes said that men are trying to live up to a certain image of being gay. This campaign as some mentioned before looked at different ways of living as a gay man and many different lifestyles.  What are your thoughts on this?

Ron Buckmire: Which I think is it’s strongest point.

Christopher Rice: I agree.

Ron Buckmire: You don’t have to look like a falcon videobox cover. AND not all gay people are in West Hollywood.

Manuel: Although it can help.

Alton: What does pride mean to you and how do you express pride in your own life?

Ron Buckmire: Depends on what you need help doing.

Ron Buckmire: Rainbow stickers on my car. J

Christopher Rice: If I want to develop self esteem and I have to act in an esteemable manner. I have to treat myself like someone who is worthy of respect.

Thomas G: Pride to me, means being who I am, and living my life the way it makes me happy.

Randy_RocketScientist: Pride is the belief in the idea God had when he (or she) made you- Isak Dineson

Alton: Nice

Thomas G: I don’t have to be in West Hollywood to be gay, and there is no one way of being gay.

Manuel: To simplify Pride for me is just being Real, having to not ever feel we need to hid parts of ourselves.

Alton: Sometime portraying a positive image for a gay man to strive for takes many forms.  Some are mainly on the exterior. Do you think that there are ways to address the inner, like self-esteem and coming out?

Randy_RocketScientist: It would be fascinating if there were available funds to do some focus groups testing which demographic group was impacted the most by this campaign…. I guess that would be the scientist in me. We like data…J

Thomas G: One way of doing that is to show the future generation that they are not alone, and I think one way of doing that is by being out. In terms of helping the inner self, is to be there for others. Friends in the gay community are important.

Jason: Group and community…

Ron Buckmire: Yup—because a public education campaign by definition will be received by the general public AND the gay community simultaneously.

Thomas G: But I also have to say, that many families have become open and accepting of gay people in their families.

Alton: It sounds like visibility is a key thread here….

Thomas G: I believe so.

Manuel: Indeed

Alton: What does community mean to you?

Thomas G: One of the first people I ever knew to be gay was my history teacher in high school. He lived his life.

Thomas G: Community is a hard one for me to define.  Especially the term Gay Community.

Manuel: Community means having to care for everyone’s needs.

Ron Buckmire: hmmmm. What would be an interesting campaign, ”Who was the first gay person you knew?”

Randy_RocketScientist: One of the pivotal things in my life has been my volunteer activities with APLA, GLASS, etc. I wonder to what extent the City can facilitate getting more people connected to organizations….and in particular, younger people.

Christopher Rice: Brilliant.

Thomas G: I think community to me is when a group of people share a common experience.

Manuel: To be inclusive in every aspect.

Alton: I’m in that camp myself. The first hero or gay image I remember was Pedro he really inspired me to do the work I do today.

Ron Buckmire: Pedro was my first person in the media—although “Torchsong Trilogy” was a biggie too.

Manuel: Oooo I love that movie.

Thomas G: I think Pedro was the First real gay person to be out, and started a shift in our current generation.

Randy_RocketScientist: With the advent of Amazon and other online bookstores the augmentation of regular bookstores with GLBT sections, gay-themed bookstores have been having a hard time lately.

Christopher: A very hard time.

Alton: Wow that brings up another idea.  As we become more assimilated into the mainstream culture do you guys feel that we are loosing some of the things that make us unique. What about our other social institutions that are specific to us like film festivals?

Thomas G: I agree, it’s sad to see that those stories are going away to larger chains, but aI also think it’s great that main stream bookstores now have gay sections ( I want to note that when I refer to gay, I include the LGBTQ community.

Manuel : If we do start to lose things that make us unique we also have to ask the question at what gain.  If it means that we are being accepted more then isn’t it worth it?

Alton: Guys you have all assisted in getting the message out about being a healthy gay man.  If you were to speak to one gay kid or person out there what would it be?

Ron Buckmire: I would want the issue of gender and misogyny/sexism among gay men and the masculinity/femininity (butch/queen) divide to be addressed.

Randy_RocketScientist: I dream of the day that in the average work environment it becomes OK to ask if someone dates men or women…

Thomas G: I think that sometimes leads to destructive tendencies, yes the normalized adolescence, which could lead to the work place questions.

Alton: Workplace questions?

Thomas G: If someone else dates men or women, being open about it at a younger age would allow people to know it’s ok.

Alton: But isn’t that changing more and more each day. I mean if we look at just the last 10 years we’ve really moved forward as a community don’t you think?

Christopher Rice: Absolutely.

Randy_RocketScientist: I think some industries and locations more so than others…

Ron Buckmire: Soon in California when someone gets married you’ll have to ask, “to a man or a woman?”

Thomas G: I agree, I live in a time where being gay is much easier, if not completely easier.

Manuel: All the more important to be role models to our families first, so to have a rippling effect on the next generation.

Thomas G: That is very true Manny.

Thomas G: I started with my family.

Alton: So Manuel with all the change we have seen in this generation what would be your hopes for the next 10 years?

Randy_RocketScientist: I think it’s “easy” to be gay in LA. I was recently exchanging messages with a nephew about his best friend who had just come out to him. The friend lived in South Carolina and was not having an easy time of it…

Thomas G: For me, I would say equal marriage in all the US.

Alton: Did you hear about Massachusetts yesterday?

Thomas G: Your right Randy, we do live in a very fortunate place, No I didn’t…

Manuel: Coming out meant that my nieces and nephews can think of at least one person that is just fine being queer.  Next 10 years we finally have moved on to bigger issues and have solved global warming.

Ron Buckmire: Yes, I heard about Massachusetts.

Alton: Great answer Manuel I think it’s going to take all of us for that one.

Manuel: Less division or no division amongst us would be great in the next 5 years.

Manuel: The sooner the better.

Thomas G: I hope I’m fortunate to see that happen.

Alton: Okay guys we are coming up on the end of our chat.

Thomas G: Wow, that was one fast hour.

Alton: Did you have other comments to add about your role in that campaign?

Randy_RocketScientist: Thanks for the opportunity…

Alton: Or did you want to leave us with anything unique to take into another campaign?

Christopher Rice: I have to say something creepy.  My framed Gay Heroes ad which we were all given at City Council was the only thing that fell off the shelves and broke during the earthquake yesterday!

Manuel: Great start… let’s keep going.

Manuel: That is creepy.

Alton: Oh my…that’s something….

Ron Buckmire: Chris: Oh no!

Manuel: Never underestimate the powers of super glue.

Christopher Rice: I know.  The picture is fine, though. Maybe just a little nudge: don’t get too complacent. Keep working.

Thomas G: I’m very greatful to have had this opportunity, as a friend said to me, I will now be a little part of gay culture.

Ron Buckmire: I would say that for the next campaign it again be citywide and also dispel stereotypical images of gay people..maybe about lesbians.

Manuel: Wonderful, that’s a great idea.

Randy_RocketScientis: Or transgenders….

Thomas G: That would be great Ron, I do believe that gay men or pushed to the forefront of being gay, and there is more than just us.

Alton: Great that is really inclusive…

Thomas G: Also our friends, who welcome and accept who we are.

Manuel: Add our friends, who welcome and accept who we are.

Thomas G: I agree.

Alton: That would be a great idea, the perspective of family members too.

Manuel: That would be a powerful campaign.

Alton: It really would.. Alright guys I wanted to once again thank you for taking the time to help us with this chat tonight.

Manuel: Include our family pets, who are always have unconditional love.  Bless their hearts.

Randy_RocketScientist: LOL

Manuel: J

Alton: I also wanted to thank our chatters for joining.

Thomas G: Thank you

Manuel: Thank you everyone and to all a good night.

Christopher Rice: Thanks guys!

Randy_Rocket Scientist: Good Night.  Have a great week! (and watch for falling picture frames…)

Alton: Have a good night gay heroes…

Thomas G:  Good night.

Ron Buckmire: upwards and away!

Ask The Expert #5 with Michael Dow

Mindful Meditation

Alton: Hi Michael welcome to the chat.

Michael Dow: Hey Alton. Thanks for having me.

Alton: Okay guys let’s get started I want to introduce Michael Dow, M.S., MFTI who’s going to be discussing his work with the Holistic You workshop next Monday.

Lenny: Hi

Michael Dow: Hey everybody..

Jason: Welcome

Michael Dow Thanks!

Alton: Michael works as an intern psychotherapist with Beverly Hills-Sunset Psychotherapy, he helps people close the gap between where they are today and where they want to be through the support of individual therapy and mindfulness meditation workshops.

Michael Dow: That’s true…and we just moved.  Our primary office is at Doheny and Melrose (steps away from the Weho Recovery Center), also have a secondary integrative wellness office at La Brea and Santa Monica at The Body Well

Alton: Just a few ground rules guys. Please respect others and their comments.

Alton: So Michael what brought you to the field of Mindfulness meditation?

Jason: What type of meditation is it?

Michael Dow: Well, I was always into yoga and things like that. In my Master’s program I was introduced to Mindfulness Meditation (I’ll call that MM from now on)

Lenny: I practice Hatha Yoga

Michael Dow: There are lots of different kinds, Jason.   Cool Lenny.

Michael Dow: And this kind is NOT about thinking NOTHING and having your brain “empty”

Alton: Thanks love the shorthand

Michael Dow: I could never do that

Michael Dow: I lead meditations where I will have you keep your “mind’s eye” on an image or have you attune to something.

Michael Dow: For example, one of my favorites is having you imagine why

Jason: Okay

Michael Dow: Yourself sitting by a river and imagining that river containing thoughts.. and just allowing yourself to “observe” your thoughts.

Michael Dow: As opposed to being reactive to them, judging them, or analyzing them… kinda the same stuff yoga teaches!

Michael Dow:  And these kinds of meditations are extremely successful in treating anxiety, depression, addiction.

Alton: So it sounds like there is an emphasis on focusing.

Alton: Hi Schmegster welcome.

Michael Dow: Yep, definitely.

Jason: How does this help a person?

Michael Dow: Well, Jason, so many times we’re on “autopilot” and we can’t tolerate painful emotions or thoughts.

Michael Dow: What if you were able to observe your thoughts and feelings without reacting to them?

Michael Dow: This is what MM helps you to do…

Michael Dow: We’re always going to have + and – thoughts/ feelings

Lenny: How could I use this for better sexual health?

Michael Dow: Well, Lenny, I think many people “self medicate” loneliness or sadness through unsafe sexual practices which can lead to complications for people living with HIV (or anyone).

Jason: But reacting comes naturally.

Jason: One can’t sit there with friends or lovers and just tell them wait a minute I.

Michael Dow: that’s true… we will always react to things… but what if you could teach yourself to become non-reactive sometimes.

Jason: I’m meditating how could this be practical in our busy lives.

Michael Dow: That’s true, and you don’t have to be this monk who is always in the “zen state”

Michael Dow: But I know that when I come home from a busy day sometimes I have trouble just relaxing or falling asleep MM helps you to be able to tap into that when you want to and be more “present” with friends and lovers.

Michael Dow: Leading to better and more conscious relationships.

Lenny: But if you just meditate wouldn’t this be a lonely life.  I mean I like my sex WITH partners.

Michael Dow: Well, practicing MM doesn’t mean that you’re always by yourself.

Alton: Okay

Michael Dow: Just like practicing yoga doesn’t mean that you’re always in the downward dog, MM could improve your sex life by helping you to be more present!

Alton: So how does one become more present?

Michael Dow: In some of the MM that I lead, I may have you attune to your senses.  For example, I may have you attune for one minute to every sound in you left ear.

Alton: I’ve done meditation and yoga for this purpose but there is a set time for it of course I like Jason’s question about making it practical.

Michael Dow: Just to begin to drop into this experience we call consciousness.

Michael Dow: Sure, I think that it’s very practical… let’s say you meet a guy for a first date and you (like everyone) has insecurities.

Lenny: Sexuality in this life is a good thing, I think I’ve been present at those moments I don’t use drugs or anything.

Michael Dow: I agree. Sexuality is a good thing.

Jason: Alright

Michael Dow: Being reactive to you insecurities may mean that you think maybe he doesn’t like me and you’ll react by doing something to push him away.

Jason: I’m following.

Alton: Interesting.

Michael Dow: Being MINDFUL is saying to yourself, “I’m noticing myself be nervous. I’m noticing  myself want to push him away.”

Michael Dow: And while you’re MINDFUL of this it IS indeed there.

Lenny: But in order to know you are reacting you would have to be aware that you are doing it right?

Michael Dow: You don’t REACT to it by sabotaging the date, etc.

Michael Dow: Yes, Lenny, you do need to be aware of your thoughts and feelings in the moment.

Michael Dow: Without letting them control you… does that make sense?

Jason: Now would I be acknowledging this out loud or just in my own head?

Michael Dow: In your head in the beginning... of course when I do couples’ therapy (and you’ve been in a relationship for long time) then you can begin to acknowledge these to your partner.

Michael Dow: And I’ve seen this improve relationships like you wouldn’t believe!

Alton: For couples it would seem like this would be a step towards greater intimacy.

Michael Dow:  Yes, Alton, it absolutely is!

Michael Dow: It’s the difference between snapping at your partner.

Lenny: But for us single guys how do I use this to make these dates workout I liked your example earlier?

Michael Dow: And saying I’m noticing myself feel very suffocated when you do this… and it makes me feel…

Michael Dow: Lenny, I think this is huge for single guys!

Alton: Interesting

Lenny: How so?

Michael Dow: Being mindful means that when someone pushes your insecurities, you’ve taught yourself to tolerate these thoughts/feelings in meditation….

Michael Dow: So you don’t need to react by pushing them away, engaging in game-playing, not calling them back b/c  your afraid.

Michael Dow: You have taught yourself that you don’t have to REACT to that insecurity you have.

Michael Dow: And therefore have a good start of a relationship.

Michael Dow: Does that make sense?

Jason: Okay so lets say there has been some game playing, is there a way to communicate these feelings or thoughts after the fact?

Jason: I mean would I just fess up to being afraid to a guy I’m just seeing?

Jason: That would scare me off.

Jason: It’s very heavy.

Alton: Knowing yourself can be scary and difficult.

Alton: Hey Michael there is a lot of discussion around meditation, yoga assisting in well being.

Alton: What does well being mean for you?

Michael Dow: absolutely!

Michael Dow: for me, well-being is defined as feeling peaceful, connected, and having meaning.

Michael Dow: (as opposed to being defined as just not having symptoms) I think we’re too caught up with diagnoses and labels sometimes. Well-being doesn’t care if you’re HIV-positive or bipolar.

Alton: In the LGBT community how could this concept of well-being be applied?

Michael Dow: We can all create well-being in our lives.

Michael Dow: I think that the more people make choices to CREATE their well-being, the more happiness they will feel.

Jason: So what if someone has never meditated before?

Michael Dow: When people feel like things are “happening” to them… and that we have no control (i.e. I have this disease and I will take this pill from the doctor and hope it works but I have no way of knowing)

Michael Dow: The more things we are CHOOSING to do, the better!

Michael Dow: My class is designed for all levels!

Michael Dow: First-timers are welcome.

Alton: Taking more responsibility in ones happiness!

Michael Dow: And Yoga, meditation, exercise will always augment traditional western medicine.

Michael Dow: and make treatments more effective!

Alton: So Michael I noticed that you have also studied with couples “imago modality” Could you talk a little about this for those couples out there.

Michael Dow: Sure, if anyone watches Oprah Dr. Hendrix (the founder of Imago) actually did a session on her show last week.

Michael Dow: Imago and Mindfullness actually work well together.

Lenny: Oprah yeah!

Michael Dow: lol

Jason: Cute boys for everyone!!!!

Michael Dow: In fact, one of the first imago exercises is a guided meditation where you walk back thru time and see all the people in your life (parents, caretakers, boyfriends)

Michael Dow: And you note their positive qualities and thank them.

Michael Dow: But also tell them what you really needed from them and didn’t get.

Alton: Nice

Michael Dow: So a person who had a very distant parent who abandoned them will “repair” some of the things you didn’t get as a child thru your current romantic relationships.

Michael Dow: On some level, if your father/mother/caretakers were cold and distant, you may “pick” cold and distant men so you can get them to be there for you and loving.

Lenny: So if I’m seeking that hot guy your saying it’s because I didn’t get any love when I was a kid?

Michael Dow: We all pick the people in our life who will “heal” us.

Alton: That’s really intense.

Michael Dow: Well, not  exactly… we all like hot guys and sexual chemistry

Michael Dow: But the people who we REALLY want to enter into long-term relationships will be the people who will help us grow which is kind of cool, really.

Michael Dow: There are 2 types:

Michael Dow: 1) pursuers and 2) distancers

Michael Dow: Most people who are distancers were suffocated as children or felt overwhelmed.

Lenny: Wow

Michael Dow: Most people who are pursuers felt abandoned.

Jason: hmmmm

Michael Dow: And pursuers and distancers will always be attracted to each other.

Alton: Hey Michael we are coming up on the end of the talk today.

Michael Dow: Okay, it’s been fun!!!

Michael Dow: How should we wrap up?

Alton: Would you like to mention any last things about this Monday?

Michael Dow: I’m really excited… it’s going to be great to be on a panel with other health professionals and real-live people so that we can engage in a discussion

Alton: Hey guys the conference will be Monday, May 12 6:30pm Buffet Dinner and 7:00pm presentation at the West Hollywood Park Auditorium 647 N. San Vicente Blvd. West Hollywood, CA 90069.

Michael Dow: And really talk about how all our modalities can help you.

Alton: If you would like to RSVP call 310-289-2551 or have any questions email acarswell@lagaycenter.org

Alton: Michael thank you for taking the time to be with us tonight.

Michael Dow: Thank you guys for being here! It was a pleasure!

Jason: This was cool

Michael Dow: J

Michael Dow: I agree

Lenny Thanks Mike

Ask The Expert #4 with Ruben Romo

Mind, Body and Soul

Alton: So we are about to start with a few guidelines.

Tom:  Rules?

Alton: Let’s honor other people comments, have fun and feel free to jump in anytime.

Tom: That’s easy enough.

Richard: OK

Alton: So everyone I would like to introduce Ruben who is working with me on the new Mind Body and Soul for this month.  Ruben heads many great programs with Learning Curve at the Center.

Ruben: Hey guys, nice to be here.

Ruben: Thanks for inviting me Alton

Alton: No problem, so Learning Curve what do you guys do and how does it help the community?

Tom: Mind Body and Soul?

Ruben: Learning Curve is the Center’s adult education program.

Richard: Nice

Ruben: We offer all kinds of programs for all the local community.

Alton: Great what sort of classes?

Tom: Adult education sounds like fun.

Ruben: I think you guys recently heard a bit about our Kundalini Yoga classes.

Ruben: Alton has been taking this class and seems to be loving it.

Alton: How do you see these classes contributing to community?

Alton: Yes, Kundalini is really challenging I’ve been recommending it to some.

Ruben: I have to admit, sometimes I wonder… but then I get a call or run into someone who has taken a class and they tell me how much our classes have helped them.

Alton: I like that the Kundalini class works on meditation and energy manipulation.

Ruben: I’ve had people tell me that our classes have helped them get better jobs, build stronger relationships or even just helped them feel better about themselves.

Richard: I’ve had people tell me that our classes have helped them get better jobs about themselves.

Richard: I’ve heard about the class but haven’t taken the plunge yet what is it about?

Alton: Yah sure.

Alton: Kundalini is another form of Yoga like Hatha and Bikrim.

Alton: In this Yoga class the goal is to build energy in your root chakra which is synonymous with your sexual center.

Alton: This energy is built up through exercises that focus on breathing, movement, and focus.

Tom: Ok

Ruben: And the instructor’s totally adorable, too.

Richard: Root chakra?

Alton: One of the things that the instructor Eric likes to mention is that you are raising your energy up in a natural way that isn’t induced with drugs or alcohol.

Ruben: Everyone who takes the class comes out feeling like they are on a natural high.

Ruben: They tell me that they feel elated all weekend long.

Alton: If you were to picture your body having various energy balls aligned with your spine the root chakra would be near the base of your perineum

Tom: Sounds like fun.

Richard: What if you have never taken yoga before?

Alton: No problem we meet people at their level.

Ruben: Interestingly, most of the people in the class have never taken yoga before.

Ruben: Erik is great at tailoring the lesson to everyone’s experience level.

Richard: That is reassuring.

Ruben: Hey Alton, since you’ve taken the class, you wanna answer what the class is all about

Alton: Yah sure.

Alton: Kundalini is another form of Yoga like Hatha and Bikram.

Alton: In this Yoga class the goal is to build energy in your root chakra which is synonymous with your sexual center.

Alton: This energy is built up through exercises that focus on breathing, movement, and focus

Tom: Ok

Ruben: And the instructor’s totally adorable, too.

Richard: Root chakra?

Alton: One of the things that the instructor Eric likes to mention is that you are raising your energy up in a natural way that isn’t induced with drugs or alcohol.

Ruben: Kundalini yoga is unlike any other type of yoga because in addition to working on your body, it focuses a lot of time sending more blood to your mind.

Ruben: Everyone who takes the class comes out feeling like they are on a natural high.

Ruben: They tell me that they feel elated all weekend long.

Alton: If you were to picture your body having various energy balls aligned with your spine the root chakra would be near the base of your perineum.

Tom: Sounds like fun.

Richard: What if you have never taken yoga before?

Alton: No problem we meet people at their level.

Ruben: Interestingly, most of the people in the class have never taken yoga before.

Ruben: Erik is great at tailoring the lesson to everyone’s experience level.

Richard: That’s reassuring.

Alton: Kundalini is just one of the classes in our series. It’s on Friday night from 7:30-9:00pm

Tom: Do we have to bring our own mats?

Ruben: One of the best parts is at the very end when Erik breaks out the homemade tea for everyone.

Alton: Nope those are provided.

Richard: So how did you come up with this yoga class?

Ruben: It’s a great way to get to meet all the other people in the class and wind down after such an invigorating class.

Alton: Hey Ruben you wanna take this one?

Ruben: Sure

Tom: Other classes?

Ruben: Kundalini is an ancient form of Yoga, but it isn’t very common in the U.S. simply because we are all used to the typical Hatha form.

Alton: Yes there are other classes besides Kundalini Yoga.

Ruben: Yes there is a cuddling party class.

Richard: Really?

Ruben: It’s about evolving your levels of intimacy with other gay men.

Ruben: It’s saying we can be close and love each other without having to deal with sexual messages all the time.

Richard: So this touch exercise, what type of touch happens?

Ruben: At the end of the class, everyone cuddles up.

Tom: Ah nothing wrong with that.

Ruben: The last hour to hour and a half is spent with everyone cuddling and getting closer.

Ruben: Once you can do this with strangers, doing it with friends should be easy.

Ruben: It also helps you clarify your feelings and intention with lovers.

Alton: This is definitely a challenging exercise for some Richard.

Tom: How many guys show up to this?

Ruben: If you can communicate your wants and needs more clearly, your sexual interactions can be all the better.

Alton: It’s all about communication and building it right?

Ruben: The minimum of this type of class is 10 people, but due to the amount of space we’ve got, we can accommodate up to 40 men.

Richard: That’s a lot of guys

Tom: R they cute? J

Alton: So that is the cuddle party class, look for this in the coming month.

Alton: So let’s move to the other class with John Buse around relationships.

Ruben: Some of them, most are just normal guys. One of the exercises and the part that everyone is most surprised about is how it helps you forget the looks of the person you’re being close to, because what’s most important is the feel… how you feel and how they make you feel in return.

Ruben: Awe, John, he’s great.

Richard: I could see this as being necessary for a comfortable group.

Ruben: His class is called, Is it Possible to Find Love in LA?

Tom: Okay

Ruben: The point of the class is to get you to check in with yourself about what you are doing to find a man and how you can improve your approach so that you will be more successful.

Richard: Sounds like dating 101.

Tom: I know how to do that.

Alton: It’s usually more than dating.

Ruben: I wouldn’t call it Dating 101, as much as dating healthy.

Alton: Could you go into the specifics Ruben?

Ruben: John’s classes meet once a month, about every 3^rd or 4^th Saturday of each month.

Tom: Okay

Ruben: In June, John is going to be offering a new class based on building health sexual relationships.

Richard: have to look into this.

Alton: What’s this one going to look like?

Ruben: That class will be specifically for men who don’t necessarily want a relationship, but are more interested in opening up their sexual boundaries.

Alton: As you can tell guys we have a lot of classes which cover a lot of topics.

Tom: Sex love it.

Richard: I can see that.

Richard: What is this one about?

Ruben: All of these classes are aimed at helping men be pro-healthy, pro-communicative, and as sexually open as possible.

Alton: With these new classes we hope to promote these ideas by creating a space where guys can talk about these difficult issues in a safe space.

Richard: It sounds pretty intense.

Ruben: We all know that sex in West Hollywood isn’t as easy as it is in the promo’s we watch.

Ruben: Gay men are sexually more complicated than that.

Alton: Richard some of these classes do get intense but there is a lot of growth that happens as well.

Tom: we like to think so.

Tom: J

Ruben: These classes are for the real guys out there. Guys who need to communicate better, perform better and heal our wounds with compassion and acceptance.

Ruben: These are the parts of my job that I sometimes forget, but at the end of the week, I feel good about helping gay men tackle these big issues.

Tom: That’s nice.

Alton: So this is what we are bringing to the community in regard to Mind Body and Soul.

Alton: We are coming up on the end of this session in a few minutes.

Alton: If you guys would like more info contact acarswell@lagaycenter.org

Ruben: Or you can contact me at learningcurve@lagaycenter.org

Ruben: You can also see a complete list of current classes at www.lagaycenter.org/learningcurve

Tom: Okay.

Richard: This is really good stuff guys thanks.

Ask The Expert #3 with Reverend Neil Thomas

Spirituality and Sex

Alton: Hello guys welcome to tonight’s chat discussion with Reverend Neil Thomas of MCC.

Alton: Tonight’s topic is spirituality and sex can the 2 be in the same room.

Alton: So Reverend Neil how are you tonight?

Neil: I am doing fine, thanks Alton. Looking forward to chatting.

Alton: Great so let’s get started. Hey guys chime in if you have any questions or concerns and let’s get chatting.

Todd: What is MCC’s opinion about sexual expression as it relates to spirituality?

Alton: Some ground-rules let’s be considerate of others opinions and have fun.

Neil: Yes, we offer spiritual guidance, but unlike our heterosexual counterparts we don’t have a “one size fits all” answer! We are a diverse community.

Alton: How do you feel that our community as a whole could benefit from this integration of spirit and sexual self?

Todd: Also , how can we communicate this healthy approach to gay youth?

Neil: That’s a good question, Alton.  I think that we could all benefit from believing in ourselves as good, wonderful, fabulous and beautiful people, made in the image of “God”. I do think that our self esteem would be much better and would help us in making decisions about who we share our intimate lives with.

Neil: Whether that be in a one night relationship or long term relationship.

Neil: We have a youth group at MCC and on Friday nights they do meet and talk about these issues. However, I think that these healthy attitudes toward self, sex and spirit must begin in our homes, schools, churches etc.

Neil: If we could integrate this into our “world” I believe that we would be much the better for it.

Alton: Do you see a connection between some of our ills in our community related to this lack of connection i.e. crystal, isolation, drugs etc.  What ways have you seen people recover from these things?

Neil: Yes, I do see a connection and I mean this in no way a judgment thing.

Alton: What would you say about other types of connection like yoga or meditation?

Neil: I see that our self-esteem and self image has been so damaged by the negative messages that we constantly hear.  This has led to many of us finding solace or even isolation in drugs/alcohol.

Neil: These things hide our inner feelings.

Todd: That could be very true.

Neil: Well I am not that old but whenever I meet new people in our community I think that I do a good job at meeting people. However, when they find out what I do for work, they freak out.

Alton: How so?

Neil: There prejudices are preconceived ideas about religion.

Neil: They are suddenly all focused on me- which is quite understandable as “we” are considered the enemy.

Alton: I would think that this would be a difficult barrier for some to overcome due to the messages they may have received from their religious upbringing.

Alton: Did you come out as Christian or a gay man first?

Todd: Many of us have had shocking experiences with the churches of our youth.  I remember being about 15 when the topic of homosexuality was discussed in my church, and I was devastated by what I heard.

Neil: Absolutely and I quite understand…however, it makes it very difficult to help people overcome some of the barriers that need to be overcome to have both a healthy spirituality and a good sexuality.

Neil: I think I came out as a gay man first.

Alton: You mention healthy spirituality what would that look like?

Todd: Fortunately today, I’ve become a very spiritual person and appreciate what I consider the true teachings of Christ, which are in line with the principles you mentioned earlier.

Neil: Todd I am not surprised. Your experience unfortunately is not isolated.

Alton: Of course taking into account for some it is an individual process…

Neil: Actually Todd has probably already answered that question. A healthy spirituality is one that honors God, honors self and honors others.

Neil: You must have a connection with the inner self as well as the outer world. Of course a healthy sex life and sexuality is about the same principles.

Kevin: Did Jesus say he wanted us to have a healthy sex life?

Alton: Are you talking about the idea that one who honors themselves and others on a spiritual level is more apt to be as caring with their sexual partners?

Todd: As the senior pastor, do you find a demand to work with your church members to address sexual issues.

Neil: Ok …Kevin. Jesus talks about honoring your neighbor as yourself and in his life we see him exhibiting healthy attitudes towards women, men and many who live on the margins of society. He was not afraid of intimacy or crossing boundaries.

Neil: Todd, yes, I will talk openly about sexual issues. We have talked about sex addiction and the use of drugs/alcohol to block our feelings which makes healthy decisions about sex difficult.

Neil : I believe that Jesus calls us to be whole people in mind, body and spirit.

Todd: What I mean by my question is do your members turn to their church as we see in the heterosexual community. It seems that this would be a healthy place to turn for guidance. I think you already answered that question.

Neil: When I talk about spirituality I don’t just mean organized religion!!! I mean all types of spiritual acts that connect our “selves” together.

Alton: That’s awesome!!! So would you say that if one is to become aware of their inner feelings than they can get in touch with these inner feelings?

Neil: I think that we all need to find some “path” that works for us.

Todd: As a 12 stepper, I would absolutely agree. Drugs and alcohol can remove the insecurities and provide a false feeling of self esteem that eventually can turn against us.

Neil: Yes, I think that is the work of counselors who help us connect the inner.

Neil: Jesus said, love your neighbor as you love yourself.  What he meant was that we had to learn to love ourselves first, before we can ever love our neighbor!!

Neil: We must do the inner work in order to build good relationships with one another.

Alton: Moving back to sexuality: Why do you think these 2 things are believed to be such polar opposites?

Todd: I love the attitude you have towards spirituality.  Being able to find what works seems to have provided an answer for many of us.

Neil: I guess because many of us have been taught that sex is evil and should only be in the mission position for procreation, sex is evil and should only be used in relation to the one you love. See the stupidity of that!

Todd: Doesn’t make a lot of sense.

Neil: It doesn’t and has led us to the place we are now.

Alton: I’ve read that if one were to look at Gay Soul through a Jungian lens our children are children of creativity what are your thoughts on this?

Neil: Add homosexuality and we are really screwed… excuse the pun!

Todd: Do you feel that this attitude is beginning to change throughout our society?

Alton: Okay guys we are going to be closing up soon.

Neil: I believe that our next generation holds a vital role in the liberation of sexual orientation, gender identity and the need for a new look.

Alton: Wow that is mind-blowing.

Neil: Many of our youth are not seeking the labels that we have so often used, they tend to be bisexual.

Alton: Sometimes it is the labels that have separated us.

Todd: That is so true. The entire landscape has changed for younger generations.

Neil: Sharing intimacy with whom ever they feel.

Neil: This is going to present a huge problem for those who would force the ideology that heterosexuality is the norm!

Neil: Sex and sexuality carry a lot of power in our world and we are a part of the “queer” that is breaking down the stereotypical  norms – it is our gift to the world….

Alton: For those that have any questions or comments please feel free to contact me at acarswel@lagaycenter.org or 323-860-7323.

Kevin: Thanks for the chat guys.

Alton: Reverend Neil do you have any events coming up that we should know about?

Neil: We worship every Sunday at 9 and 11am!!!

Neil: Godspell the concert is coming up Check out our website at www.mccla.org

Todd: Absolutely, do you feel this attitude is changing throughout the country, or is it somewhat distorted on the two coasts?

Alton: Great well with that we are going to close , I want to thank Reverend Neil for being our guest today.

Todd: Thank you.

Neil: It is changing around the world and the US is playing catch up!!

Alton: Thanks everyone who participated.

Neil: Thanks Alton for making this happen.

Ask The Expert #2 with Jeff Sumner

"Getting intimate and getting off without getting drunk/high."

(Please be advised that strong language was used in the following.)

Trevor (guest): I’m 21 and like dating.

Jason (guest): Thanks I’m 24 here

Jeffsumner (guest): Excellent Trevor.  My workshops really have a strong focus on dating issues now.

Alton (guest): Partying is okay but don’t do it in excess. I’ve been there.

Jason (guest): Well that is you. I’m not going to change my way of having fun.

Alton (guest): No one is telling you to do that, just monitor.

Jeffsumner (guest): Fun is one thing. Excess is another.  The difference between me and someone who can handle alcohol is that they can stop after one or two. I can’t. And FYI- A person can get addicted to meth after just one use.

Trevor (guest): I tend to be this sort but going out it is just all you see You know….

Jeffsumner (guest): Meth alters brain chemistry on the first use.  That’s why I am so passionate about getting people off that shit and learning to have fun without it.

Jeffsumner (guest): What do you mean Trevor. What do you see?

Alton (guest): So the meth topic. This is a big concern for the community at large that would say to yourself if you had the chance to do it all over.

Jeffsumner (guest): Good question.

Trevor (guest): I see guys partying and drinking and it’s just what everyone does.

Jason (guest): Oh god it’s fun

Jeffsumner (guest): I hear ya Trevor. I see a lot of it too. However, I’ve surrounded myself with man sober people in my life that get absolutely f---in crazy without drugs and alcohol.  If I could change what I did in the past? Nope. It made me who I am today. But I had to really go to the dark side to come out on this side.

Alton (guest): It is and we aren’t knocking that.

Alton (guest): Wow a little Carl Jung here.

Jeffsumner (guest): The dark reality is…if you are using Tina…it’s a matter of WHEN not if…you will hit bottom.

Jason (guest): Carl what?

Jeffsumner (guest): LOL

Trevor (guest): But why do people have to go to this darkside?

Trevor (guest): I see where it can go and it scares the shit out of me.

Jeffsumner (guest): Crystal meth will always take you there because of the fact that the brain can’t handle it.

Jeffsumner (guest): It should scare the shit out of you.

Alton (guest): Sorry Jason, Carl Jung was a psychologist.

Jeffsumner (guest): Didn’t he also start Carl’s Jr?

Jason (guest): It’s fun though and if I’ve got it under control it’s okay I’m not like other guys.

Alton (guest): Nice.

Jeffsumner (guest): I agree with you.  Right now it’s fun. And you may have it under control now. BUT…if you decide you want to stop…I can connect you with people that were in your exact situation that might be able to tell you their story. J

Alton (guest): There are a lot of people who have been there Jason.

Jason (guest): yah, I’ve heard it. I’m cool.

Jeffsumner (guest): And incidentally just caust I’m sober, doesn’t mean I’m a big borer. I can be a dirty whore with the rest of them.  He-he. J

Trevor (guest): This is what I see around me.

Jeffsumner (guest): So anyhoo… back to the point of all this. Sober Sex.

Alton (guest): This is really honest. I think some guys are trying to hide from this with the drugs and alcohol.

Jeffsumner (guest): That’s true.

Jeffsumner (guest): Drugs and alcohol may loosen us up sexually, but it often leads to bad decisions, guilt, shame, and generally not being present for your partner.

Jason (guest): I’m not hiding from anything it’s just fun.

Alton (guest): Could you talk about the ways that one can be present with their partner?

Jason (guest): F---ing is always best. J 

Jeffsumner (guest): Yes. Ask your partner if he likes what you’re doing to him.  Talk dirty. Express yourself. Tell him what you like and be as graphic as possible.  Catch him off guard. Role play. How’s that for starters.

Trevor (guest): So are you talking about communication more.

Jason (guest) I like it hard is that a good start….

Jeffsumner (guest): Yes.  That’s a huge deal. But I’m also saying be imaginative. Use toys, dress up, show off, and do stuff that allows you both to focus on each other.  When we drink and use…we tend to be really selfish sexually and don’t give a shit about our partners.

Alton (guest): Okay Jason

Jeffsumner (guest): When I was using, I didn’t give a crap about anybody else.  I only wanted my needs to be met.

Alton (guest): Caring about partners is what it’s all about.

Jeffsumner (guest): Now I totally get off watching my partner (s) get off. It’s much more intense.

Jason (guest): What’s wrong with that.

Trevor (guest): I think it’s selfish like Jeff is saying.

Jason (guest): ya ya

Alton (guest): So we are coming up to the end of our chat guys.

Alton (guest): This has been a really great start. SO Jeff when does the new format begin?

Jeffsumner (guest): I’m not going to defend my views or try to change your mind.  I can only say from experience that my life is significantly different now and a lot of it is due to the fact that I have a healthy sober sex life. J

Jeffsumner (guest): We will begin the new format starting in early March.  It’s gonna be AWESOME!!

Trevor (guest): Cool

Jason (guest): I’ll look for it.

Jeffsumner (guest): Cool. Play safe boys. And if you see me out and about… say hi.

Alton (guest): So your first one is at Pleasure chest any fun things you can share before we sign off.

Trevor (guest): Okay

Jason (guest): K

Alton (guest): Alright guys that ends the second Ask the Expert

Alton (guest): Thank you Jeff for being our guest this evening.

Jeffsumner (guest): He-He. Lot’s of surprises. Here’s a sneak peak Product Demos for the Sex Workshop in Week One. Week Two will also now incorporate building an online profile for internet dating. And Week Three- We’ll be going to a bar in Silverlake to see how we can practice our man skills for real.

Alton (guest): Looking forward to the new format and guys if you would like some more info on our programs feel free to email acarswel@lagaycenter.org or call 323-860-7323 for updates.

Jeffsumner (guest): Thanks guys. Have a great night. J

Alton (guest): Sounds like fun.

Alton (guest): Good night everyone.

Jason (guest): See ya

Trevor (guest): Bye

Transcript from The first Ask the Expert with Michael Hauser

Chat transcript 12/18/07

Ctrl, Alt, Delete Sex

(Please be advised that strong language was used in the following.)

MichaelHauser: Darren, do you ever feel like on-line life is an avoidance of life off-line?

MichaelHauser: Everything in balance.  But I think having casual sex, ultimately becomes so routine, you have to go deeper.

Darren (guest): No, but sometimes I go online when I don't have anything else to do, to pass the time, meet people and sometimes the occasional hook up.

Alton (guest): I think many of us do this.

MichaelHauser: What did we do when there wasn't an on-line community?

delicateflower (guest): go out to the clubs and have sex

Darren (guest): It's funny you ask that I wasn't out when there wasn't an online community.

Darren (guest): I actually found the community through the internet in my college years when it was first starting in 1996

Darren (guest): The internet community that is

MichaelHauser: What I'm not hearing in this short conversation is. Yeah, I meet people, we build a relationship, we become friends, we date, we commit to eachother, then we

have sex.

MichaelHauser: Darren, so, all you know is the online community.

Alton (guest): But what about those people that just go to the internet for sex.

Darren (guest): I wouldn't say that I

Darren (guest): I just started learning about the gay community through the internet then I met friends, came out and the rest is history.

delicateflower (guest): I think that when you are in a relationship everything changes, but before you get in that relationship you play around as much as you can

MichaelHauser: Clarity is very powerful.  Wanting sex is what it is.  But I'm certain, those seeking sex online are seeking more than sex.  They're seeking a soul connection.

Alton (guest): Great point Michael in your article you mentioned that we're raised in the awareness that flesh is king, we get hypnotized into thinking that intimacy is the act of

getting laid.

MichaelHauser: DelicateFlower: what does playing around look like for you?  how many times have you had sex this month?

delicateflower (guest): about 20 times

MichaelHauser: 20 times. and out of those 20 times, you felt what?

delicateflower (guest): its hard to connect when you are not ready to

delicateflower (guest): i felt good and wanted

MichaelHauser: so you're not ready to connect on a soul level, but on a physical level?

Darren (guest): What's connecting on a soul level?

delicateflower (guest): i think so, i am not ready to connect on a soul level yet i just want to have fun         

MichaelHauser: For me, a soul connection is when I meet someone and it's not ALL about sex.  It's about sharing parts of our wounded self, and other places in our lives we

seldom hide from one another.

MichaelHauser: DFlower: I think it's great that you're clear on not wanting to connect on a soul level. but one day you will. I'm suggesting you start now developing the skills to

do so.

Darren (guest): But how do you get to that place of showing your wounded self if the guys you meet aren't interested in that and just leave?

MichaelHauser: That's what I'm saying.  Where are you meeting these guys?  What's the percentage of guys you meet online and offline?

********** at 7:22 PM LongBeachLatino joined the room

Darren (guest): For sex online I meet about 75%, offline I'd say that it's about 25%

Alton (guest): Hello LongBeach Latino welcome

LongBeachLatino: Hello Guys, Long Time Listner, First Time User, LOL!

MichaelHauser: Then I'd say you might want to consider to reverse that.  Make meeting guys offline 75%. And if you're wanting to have a soul connection, meeting other men

who just want sex is what you're going to get.

LongBeachLatino: sex is a no brainer, it takes no effort.

Darren (guest): Meeting guys offline just doesn't happen I go out have fun with my friends but don't really meet other people so are you saying I should just stop using the

internet? That doesn't make sense

********** at 7:26 PM AbFab101 (guest) left the room

Darren (guest): Believe me I'm out there seeing a lot of people but no connections are occuring.

MichaelHauser: I'd say if you want to meet men, meet them off line. Why are you meeting men online and not off line?

********** at 7:28 PM abfab101 (guest) joined the room

Darren (guest): I meet them online because its easier.

MichaelHauser: What makes it easier? Break it down for me.

Darren (guest): It's easier because I don't have to deal with the attitude in the bars for one.

Alton (guest): Oh that isn't so much fun.

MichaelHauser: LBeach: you're right sex is a no brainer. it's pretty easy. and what happens it gets easier and easier, and before you know it. you're having sex 20 times or so a

month because it's so easy.  At the end of the day you're spent.

delicateflower (guest): i have the skills i just like playing right now, i have been in long term relationships and now is time to play

LongBeachLatino: look guys, sex is a no brainer, when a guy wants it he will get it.  Nothing will stop a man from getting what he wants.

MichaelHauser: If you're looking for a relationship I'd suggest putting together the longest list possible of every quality you're seeking in a person.

Darren (guest): I've made the lists, I've done that and I'm still not finding quality guys, sometimes it gets frustruting.

MichaelHauser: DFlower: If playing is what you want, and you're happy, them more power to you. are you playing safely?

MichaelHauser: Stick to the list. Empower yourself with the attitude that 'no man is getting this, unitl he fits what I'm looking for.

delicateflower (guest): yes of course  you have to now a days

MichaelHauser: Great!

Darren (guest): Time is ticking and its really getting discouraging.

MichaelHauser: TIme?  How old are you?

Darren (guest): 30

MichaelHauser: 30 is a great time in your life.

Alton (guest): There's a lot of guys out there Darren.

MichaelHauser: Do you typically ask men out, or they ask you out. Either on line or off?

Darren (guest): I don't typically ask men out I usually wait offline. Online I go after them because its easy.

LongBeachLatino: True

MichaelHauser: Answer this question.  Would you rather be respected for your thoughts or cherished for your feelings?

Darren (guest): I'd rather be cherished for my feelings?

delicateflower (guest): i rather be respected for my thoughts

MichaelHauser: D: When you go after them, what them are you referring to?  Them as in sex objects? or Them as potential dates.

Darren (guest): It's usually both depending on how the meeting goes.

Darren (guest): When I say them I mean guys

MichaelHauser: You can't have your feet in two different worlds.  Either it's sex or it's buidling a relationship by dating them.

LongBeachLatino: I belive you should f--- around until Love knocks you on your ass          

Darren (guest): I think sex should be in the meantime before meeting a partner.

MichaelHauser: Darren: If you want a relationship, the odds of finding one thru sex are slim.

********** at 7:42 PM FuglyBetsey (guest) joined the room

LongBeachLatino: love is a gift not something you plan or study for or go to the gym for or make enough money for.

FuglyBetsey (guest): Its cold outside...who wants to warm me up from the inside?

Darren (guest): I'm not saying that I'm looking for a relationship through sex, there are sex buddies and there date potentials.

MichaelHauser: Have all the sex you want, but I've found thru my own sexual acting out, it left me empty in the long run.

********** at 7:43 PM FuglyBetsey (guest) left the room

LongBeachLatino: hey sex is sex, enjoy it, dont punush it.  when love comes around you will know.

LongBeachLatino: sex and love making is two different worlds

MichaelHauser: sex and love making are two different worlds, but the love making is not showing up that much in the community.

Alton (guest): That is true longbeachlatino but I think we are talking about those 2 worlds

Alton (guest): Could you talk about this lovemaking Michael?

LongBeachLatino: then so be it, all in favor of f------ around until love kicks you in the ass, say  "I"

LongBeachLatino: "I"

delicateflower (guest): I

MichaelHauser: Love making is what I would say there is a commitment to healthy intimacy, communication, a real desire to communicate, thru sex, love.

delicateflower (guest): i had that once

MichaelHauser: then you know the difference.

Darren (guest): Sometimes these sound like great words but when you don't see it. You just deal in your own way.

MichaelHauser: How do you deal with it?

Alton (guest): These things are available to you Darren.

MichaelHauser: Yes Alton, thank you.

LongBeachLatino: I belive that every guy should f--- around unitl they are in their late 20's early 30's, then once your done being a slut, then grow up.

Darren (guest): I know that on some level but when it's not happening I think that something is wrong with me.

MichaelHauser: Nothing is wrong with you.

delicateflower (guest): i believe that to some extend just remember to you use protection         

MichaelHauser: LBeach: that doesn't work for everyone.

LongBeachLatino: there is nothing more pathetic to see a guy in his late 30's  or early 40's trying to act kool and/or act young again.

MichaelHauser: Too each his own.

Alton (guest): Now, now let's not be too harsh..

LongBeachLatino: no, get it out of your system when your young, be responsible when your hittimg half a century.

Alton (guest): But what about those guys who come out later in there lives like 30, 40, or even 50?

LongBeachLatino: in todays world, get serious.............

MichaelHauser: So you're hitting mid life and then you look back and see that you f----- your way to your 40's and have no real intimacy skills because you've been fucking

objects for years instead of learning to build loving, caring relationships.

LongBeachLatino: that all comes when love kicks you in the ass.

Darren (guest): I am getting it out of my system but again it's discouraging. Without the internet I think it would be even harder. You keep mentioning intimacy skills, but what

good is all that if you don't have someone to teach you that.

LongBeachLatino: when true love happens, EVERYthing comes to play

LongBeachLatino: until then, f--- it, have fun!!!! jsut dont be undafe.

LongBeachLatino: unsafe.

Alton (guest): Safe is a very important thing to follow.

MichaelHauser: You don't have to wait for a relationship for everything to come into play in your life.  love of self makes everything come into play.

LongBeachLatino: like i keep saying, f--- around until its out of your system, then once your much older and have been brazy, then be all serious.

MichaelHauser: i'm not an adovate of that.

Darren (guest): Believe me I have done the self love thing and know myself very well almost to the extent of feeling like I'm a loner now and can't relate to others.

MichaelHauser: You sound like you need to find like minded people.

LongBeachLatino: i cant stand hearing an older guy say " I wish"  "I wish",  blah, blah, blah,  should have done it when you where younger.

delicateflower (guest): Darren you are f----- up

MichaelHauser: Dflower. not very supportive.

Alton (guest): Now, now again some people don't come out at the same time LongBeachLatino.

delicateflower (guest): i think that being  a loner is not a good thing

LongBeachLatino: i am now at a time in my life where life needs to be more serious, but let me tell you,  i can die tonight and say I definatly lived ALOT of life!          

MichaelHauser: Our time is ending soon. If you're looking for real relationships that are more than fucking, then stop f------ in the first place.

Alton (guest): That's great...

LongBeachLatino: hey hey hey,  dont knock the f------!   LOL!            

LongBeachLatino: sex is the one thing we are not taxed on or have to pay for.

MichaelHauser: And then find places that interest you, that empower you.

Alton (guest): Yes, everyone we are closing up the chat in a few minutes but I wanted to thank Michael for coming out tonight. Did you have any last comments Michael?

MichaelHauser: Build up your self esteem.  That you can be in a close relationship without sex.

delicateflower (guest): trust me you will get tired Longbeachlatino you will get tired, i have been right there and got tired soon

LongBeachLatino: a realtionship with out sex will lead to cheating

Alton (guest): You can read more about Michael in the frontiers section of Spirit/Mind/Body and ConsciousLiving.

MichaelHauser: I'm having a workshop on gay dating. Check out my website. livingvertically.com for more info.

LongBeachLatino: more power to ya MH

Alton (guest): Thank you for your time Michael it was great. any last questions or comments guys?

MichaelHauser: Thank you Alton for the opportunity.

delicateflower (guest): thank you Michael 

********** at 8:00 PM delicateflower (guest) left the room

MichaelHauser: Hey Guys. I know how it is out there.  Be gentle with yourself.  There are no wrong ways or right ways, but there are alternative ways to find out about

relationships.

MichaelHauser: You're all very welcome. Stay in touch. Happy Holidays.

********** at 8:01 PM LongBeachLatino left the room

Alton (guest): Hi Darren, come check out our events on the website there is plenty of stuff for you to meet other guys offline.

Alton (guest): Have you heard of One Key Away?

Darren (guest): What's that?

Alton (guest): It's a speed dating event where you meet guys online then you come to a venue to meet the guys you saw online in a fun safe environment.

Darren (guest): Hmmm, that's interesting...

Alton (guest): Yah, just email me at acarswell@lagaycenter.org and I can get you the details. Okay

      

Online buddies and intimacy

Hi Guys,

I recently read an article in Frontiers which discussed gay men who use the internet in order to spend time  to meet and connect with others. It brought up the idea that many of us are spending countless hours in this pursuit and that this is very indicative of the current state of affairs with our community as far as our mental, emotional, and spiritual health. What are your thoughts?

New site

I think this is a really cool site, when is the next event. That one key away thing sounds like fun.